evocation table

evocation table

Monday, January 2, 2012

PHYSICAL MANIFESTATION OF SPIRITS?!!




These writings are basically a copy from a great discussion I had on a private list of respected magicians…enjoy
     I use to get so  excited and revved up about this topic but I've debated it too many times. I’ve posted on other blogs, argued on lists and have read where magicians have gone back and forth about this topic SO here is where I stand based on EXPERINCE:
   Basically the topic begins on a matter of degree and the certainty beyond imagination and clear channel in which one is -really- interacting with a spirit. I’ve found the people who argue the most against physical -appearance- and audibly hearing the spirit, are those who have never achieved it and who have never taken the time to TRY the operation as it is given in the grimoire.
Claiming something does or does not work a certain way without really having the experience in it, is obvious faulty reasoning.
The Solomonic list as well as others go on and on about this topic. Many of the posts are the sum of justifications for never really going all the way conducting the grimoric operation (as it is given in the text) while claiming to be some authority on the matter.

I don't argue this topic with these magicians anymore. Some are quite gifted but still have no real experience in working a grimoric operation. To immediately jump to ATR methods, substitute folk methods or other ways before trying out the written instructions gives a magician ZERO experience working the grimoire. The amount of crap I've heard is astonishing consisting of every single justification, excuse, and reasoning known. I have yet to hear “I’ve constructed everything and performed the ritual just as it is given hundreeds of times and THEN I gave up.” You don’t hear that argument. Very few have impressed me or led me to believe they have gotten the true nature as to what any grimoire is about.

I have read where magicians say they did an impromptu evocation of so and so Goetia Spirit and they received the results they asked for even though they never saw or heard the spirit. To me this is not a successful account of an evocation. The answers to their requests could have been brought about by sympathetic magick, a local land spirit, their unconscious, spirit of an ancestor, the specter of the closet mop lady, or any number of possibilities, not to mention coincidence. This is a successful fulfillment of the “wish” or request, NOT the contact of the spirit they thought accomplished their task. It may have been, but just as easily may not have.



It would be like sending out a general email to a worldwide post with the heading “Pamela Anderson” asking for a signed photograph. Getting one in the mail a week later does not entail it came from her and would most likely be from anyone but her. The request was granted, but who knows from where or who. Many folks are satisfied with this type of “magick” but not me.


When it comes to specific spiritual beings I try to be as discerning as I can before claiming anything. Previous to the DSIC operation, I made contact with a few of the planetary angels I was quite sure I was “familiar” with. ( Such as Sachiel) After what I’ve experienced with the Trithemius art, I couldn’t be sure if I had contacted them, one of their subordinate (messenger spirits) or something else entirely that was of similar persuasion. The interaction was on a whole new level and felt as if I was “meeting” them for the first time.



(Perhaps its all my personal perspective of getting slightly closer to the ‘Source’)



      Even now I am certain I have not witnessed the entirety of what some of these beings really are and I never care to. It’s been difficult fulfilling some day to day responsibilities with the lingering effects of their presence. I’m sure some aspects of my life have suffered in my attempts to cram so much cosmic goings-on into my little head while still trying to be “Mr. Successful Mundane”. True skrying is perfectly viable for these dealings. The effects can still be similar with the spirit’s presence impacting the atmosphere {signs of their arrival} and may still cause seemingly physical effects in the immediate environment. It does not have to be an evocation to “physical appearance” although I believe this is at the high end of the scale concerning spiritual contact. For me, its about my level of certainty and revelation that I’ve truly met a being beyond my own head. I may not completely understand what/who I’ve experienced, but at least I’m certain I did experience it. I can point out direct examples of how my life has improved or gifts of a certain kidn have obviously been bestowed upon me by the spirits I’ve talked to. However, I think the experience of them has been the hugest life changing phenomena I could ever relate.


After what I've experienced, I can understand how how most people might enjoy using simpler forms of invocation/evocation. .. At least in some cases, it would be more agreeable to use methods other than grimoric evocation to garner help from spiritual beings.

The degree of spirit-human interaction I believe can have a staunch impact on the psyche and field/spectrum-reality of the magician. It hasn't become "common" or "comfortable", for me and is still rather taxing at times. It is worth it in every fraction of the experience though.

I have come to believe that when a spirit, (demon or angel) is compelled to make its presence physically known, it bends a lot of "rules" and the unnaturalness of the event causes some sort of stress on the immediate environment as well as the magician. (Possibly the spirit as well) The degree or magnitude of the spirit’s presence can cause what Lisiewski (Ceremonial Magic and the Power of Evocation/Howlings) termed the "slingshot" effect and others "paradox". Basically, difficulties and incursions (which seem to manifest after an operation where the spirit appeared and affected the physical environment) occur in awkward manners in order to restore "normalcy". At least that is how it has appeared to me and has caused some interesting and frustrating repercussions.

It seems like the conjured spirit has little if any involvement in these occurrences, and it is reality itself or a "moderator" which causes this phenomena to occur.

-Then why perform these sorts of evocations at all? -



The beings can be disturbing, bring nightmares, can leave you feeling more than a bit uneasy and cause that slingshot thing to occur. …….The reason is, 
 -The Affirmation of Introduction.



When I first attempted to conjure a Goetic Spirit it was interesting, spooky, and very much- VUAGE. I realized later I had no real confirmation of exactly what (if anything substantial) had been evoked. I could have contacted a weird vision of deceased ancestor for all I really knew. I saw an image yes, but it appeared like an apparition and did not “speak” so far as I could hear. It was a first step, something had happened, I got a sense that it (the grimoire) could at least “work”.

Before my grimoire obsession, I made many attempts to contact other beings, mostly Celtic related: Fae, godforms, genius loci, and Sidhe (ironically all following under or about the same heading). I experienced a few intense OBE/astral encounters where the being was seen and heard very clearly. Other times I made offerings and spoke aloud to spirits in the forest I couldn’t really “see” but indefinitely felt were there. I received the results I asked for and found this practice very agreeable which is why I continue it to this day. My intuition leads me to believe, spirits appreciate this type of interaction above many others. I felt my relations to the unseen inhabitants grow but wasn’t exactly sure who or what.



-In ceremonial/grimoric magick however, my goal is to {initially} contact a certain sprit, greet them face to face, become acquainted with them, first before asking anything from them. I cannot settle for anything generic because I cannot be certain of what/who is appearing and what/who is doing what for me. Results or gains have always been secondary on my list of goals concerning evocation. If I just needed something done, I’d most likely do anything other than evocation of a powerful spirit.





The topic of angelic evocation has been bantered about on a certain list as a few people have been posting in about their idle conversations with METETRON, of all angels. I cannot help but scoff just a bit and roll my eyes. If any interaction had taken place it was such a fractioned piece of a fraction that it would hardly be worth mentioning. Spirits can work in any manner they chose and this is not to say Metetron could not speak with these people.

Yet, again, it’s a matter of degree and channel. Just because I received a telegram from The Prime Minister’s assistant who dictated a reply to a secretary, does not mean I have any indication of whom or what the Prime minister is about. I got a reply sure, but from whom? For some, simply getting a reply is good enough. It was for me when I was just trying this stuff out, but I’m a little more skeptical with myself and the spirits these days and want to make sure I’m contacting who I intend. However, after initial contact, I am much apt to utilize a system like Josh’s or something simpler to make requests as I care less about ‘who’ accomplished them and more about getting it done. I feel more confident after initial introduction that I can contact the correct angel/spirit/demon/being after already meeting them. Each feels a bit different to me. Asking something from someone/thing I’ve never really met seems a little assuming if not rude. ( I like to ask the spirit what its able to do for me instead of just assuming it can because the grimore or another magician told me so)

‎"Real" results -to me anyway-, consist of beholding something in the UTMOST certainty possible. That is, perceiving and communicating clearly with the spirit I am contacting. I bypass this rule during some other magical workings with spirits besides grimoric evocation. I use the conjurations the grimoires use which state the spirit is to "come visibly and affably, speak unto me with a Clear voice Intelligible" anything besides this is a breaking of the stated terms and thus not a fulfillment of them. It keeps sincerity and integrity in what the operation is about. I didn't spend years crafting belts out of expensive lion hide, days painting a circle, and months memorizing the conjurations for an ambiguous event in where I am not certain of what I experienced.


Magic, especially tradition, art based ritual magic is a slippery slope for those who begin to rationalize away and cut corners from the start.....I have yet to see where a magician has not compromised to the point of abandoning the art for a more imagery game style of "magic" when it comes to evocation.... ..

Although Joe Lisiewski's writings tend to fume me and I see where hes stepped a bit beyond his humility ;-) I understand his scoffs at most "New Agers" out there and all the boasting "modified magicians" .....its a bit difficult to take ANYONE serious after you've actually witnessed the poundings on the wall, flashes of light, smells, moans, screams, voices, and visible appearance of a spirit...while these self-proclaimed authorities say these types phenomena don't really matter, or they don't really happen, or don't denote true success of an evocation. To me, its a cop out, I smile yet feel sorry for the new magicians who settle for these words. a huge Light show is not required, but are the results of a profound spiritual evocation on the physical realm.

Now, let me CLARIFY some terminology:  "Physical Appearance" confuses some into thinking that the magician meant a spirit "came into physical form". I don't think any respectable magicians have quite gone so far to claim a spirit became physically tangible. .
The spirit's degree of possible 'interaction' with the physical world is something on paradoxical scale though. The most dynamic evidence of their presence besides their visible appearance is the poltergeist type activity: Winds, sounds, banging, objects moving, etc which seem to have no logical source. I've experienced this only a handful of times in my life but it is quite apparent and not vague in any way.

.... There always seems to be repercussions from the 'unnaturalness' of these events after which I don't think is necessarily caused by the evoked spirit themselves. Some sort of strain or hiccup in the natural flow of things
.. An excellent story I heard from my anthropology class was about a researcher who went to investigate the powers of a shaman somewhere in the south Asian jungles. The shaman was curing an afflicted boy who's disease was caused by a local demon the village people said. .... During the exorcism, the tribes folk all saw the demon fly out of the boy and break a limb of a tree with its body as it left. The anthropologist was present, felt strong winds arise and witnessed the breaking limb but could not see the demon.... A great case study as I recall, the researcher was amazed and quite disturbed but didn't have the "aptitude" or mental language to see the spirit directly.. In the realm of hypnosis and mental/unconscious comprehension ... You see this a lot.

 

….SIDE THOUGHT…..

Something interesting to note which I learned recently is that astrophysicists now agree that "Energy can become/turn into matter" A prospect that was rather fantastical sounding until recently. For them it has given credence to the "Big Boom" .."creating SOMETHING out of "NOTHING" ...It was exciting for me to learn because the more the explained it, the more magical/divine is sounded in rational terms.(it had to happen just so)...Energy when moved a very certain way (i.e intelligently) can create matter....The scientist have theorized on the "how" but not exactly "what" causes or can cause this to happen.



Despite my advocacy for visibly seen and directly heard spirits during magical evocation, I also argue how ridiculous it is for ANYTHING spiritual/nonphysical to need to LOOK like anything at all. That is to say I doubt fairly highly that spirits in their natural state look like anything at all or reside in places that have obviously physical references. "Heaven is a place paced with streets of gold..etc." When we see Goetia spirits as a combination of various animals and anthropomorphic features, I think it is the attempt of our brains trying to decode purely spiritual and symbolic concepts into "physical" or visible representations...

This is a conclusion I came to after the length of time I spent experimenting with various people using hypnosis.

If someone has no subconscious frame of reference for a "thing" they cannot see it, cannot know it. Ironically this does not apply strictly to the spiritual....People have trouble SEEING something physically presences when they do not have a frame of reference for it. The brain will actually scramble to correlate something to what they know, often causing falters in observation and comprehension of what they are actually seeing. The reason why eyewitness and recalled memories are often not based on "fact" at all. Human beings are very poor observers when the multitude of variables are considered.

I see the complete act of magical/grimoric evocation as a way of actively altering the mind and comprehension sensors to be able to behold intelligences which are otherwise sublime and enigmatic to the point of being 'vague invisibilities'. The involvement of the divine to help achieve this phenomena on our behalf, as well as the rigorous dedication which is needed to achieve these ends allows the experience to take place. The true reaction of which is what is described as "Divine Bliss" by Lisiewski. A very intense and unique experience which is why I cannot give much credence to the CASUAL SUMMONER who acts as if such feats are every day and cause little impact on his psyche.
What Lisiewski is describing, as well as myself, a few others are not the "spirit pot interactions", tending to the shrines and ongoing relations with ancestor spirits, or petitions to spirits of various loci... These ARE veritable magical practices but NOT what the grimories are describing.....It frustrates me to see where current magicians are devolving the practices of the grimories into these methopds when they are quite obviously NOT the same practices.


..The state I was in in which the most intense and apparent phenomena occurred was when I was in a similar state of 'transcendence' I guess you could say from normal thought. Those times which are difficult to explain due to the lack of removed analytical reasoning. I had stopped 'thinking' about the evocation and and trying to make things happening and things 'were just happening' I was filled with such intense states of awareness I was unable to examine my 'awareness' until afterward. I did not expect anything to happen but KNEW what I was going to experience. The moments where I had no doubts, no arguments, no examinations beyond what was going on..( The (The mind stops analyzing the conjurations and each word is a certainty of express, for reaction) .INTENSE power and CERTAINTY which I continue to attribute to God: something way beyond "myself" weather from my HGA directly or the Source o Creation or both...it was if both and either did not matter as all was within at that time....That feeling of everything coming into alignment.. "Bliss" i guess is a good description. Its amazing but the times after can get strange and sort of backlash....Conception of reality and logical flow seems to get fragmented a bit.... 


31 comments:

  1. I enjoyed this post quite a lot. It encourages me that my efforts though not quite to this point yet, are nonetheless on target and are not the waste of time, effort and serious cash that others if informed would castigate me for. It also encourages me that even though I am now 2+ years into constructing the tools for the Grimoire Verum, that is perhaps what it needs to be, just as long as it's getting done right. This year will finally see the completion of all the tools, and I look forward to what's next.

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  2. Hmmmm. Some of this post looks familiar :-)

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  3. Umm just to be clear to anyone who reads my last comment, I mean that it looks like an e-mail that the good Frater wrote to me. I did not mean to imply that it looks familiar because it came from another source.

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  4. "I have yet to hear “I’ve constructed everything and performed the ritual just as it is given hundreeds of times and THEN I gave up.” You don’t hear that argument. "

    I have frequently had customers tell me about conducting a grimoiric ritual (in particular, the Heptamaron has come up a lot) with all attention to the bells and whistles and getting zero results. Would you say that the individual has to do it again and again?

    "Even now I am certain I have not witnessed the entirety of what some of these beings really are and I never care to."

    I have not engaged in grimoiric magic, but I have had direct experience with some plant spirits. On a grimoire discussion list I posted something along the lines of how terrifying such an experience could be (and I am not talking about getting messed up by ingesting alkaloids) and was mocked for it by someone who said he had worked with the plant and felt nothing. One thing I have learned for certain is that these spirits are not like us. The sheer degree of otherness is enough to scare the wits out of a person. This is why I doubt many claims I have heard about spirit contact through grimoiric work, people who boast about working with this or that spirit as if they were talking about some guy they eat lunch with on their job. I don't believe that.

    I have often felt the same doubt as you express re people claiming to have had contact with Metatron. I just do not believe it, given what I have learned of this spirit.

    Thanks for this very interesting post.

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  5. Great feedback. I tend to concur with you on the skepticism of nonchalant interaction with spirits. At least in the dynamic sense, there is nothing typical or mundane about it. Even people unattuned to spiritual activity will feel uncomfortable when such things are directly nearby I've found.

    Yes! Evocation is something that must be done over and over... I don't see traditionalist write on this much, but very few (if any at all) have ever gotten the full blown achievements first time out! The best conjurers out there don't speak on it much,  but they met many failures initially before achieving results the grimories speak of.  My first Goetic evocation attempt after going "all out traditional" was a complete flop. -nothing/ not even "slingshot effect". I had better success the first time with rudimentary tools.  However, theres a reason a process for this and a good thing to. ( this art are for the ridiculously tenacious ) The mind/spirit of the magus undergoes quite a process in order to sustainably interact with the forces that are called up during -this- type of evocation.  It's extremely taxing on everyone and everything involved, (besides the Great Divine) matching will to voice - voice to conjuration- conjuration to intrinsic (instead of external) operation. All these factors are part of the process ....something which will occurs naturally I believe for the magician unwilling to give up after a first or few attempts. 

    The operation itself is forceful and demands complete immersion during its process, a concept which is difficult for the vast majority of us in any cercumstance.

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    1. Hi Frater Bryan,

      Is there a way I can contact you privately via email. Thank you.

      Leonard
      fundnopolis@gmail.com

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    2. Is this to suggest then that evocation is more a "Request" then a "Command"?

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  6. " I made many attempts to contact other beings, mostly Celtic related: Fae, godforms, genius loci, and Sidhe (ironically all following under or about the same heading). I experienced a few intense OBE/astral encounters where the being was seen and heard very clearly. Other times I made offerings and spoke aloud to spirits in the forest I couldn’t really “see” but indefinitely felt were there. I received the results I asked for and found this practice very agreeable which is why I continue it to this day. "

    It is interesting that you do this witchcraft-like practice and at the same time working with grimoires. Could you describe your methods for this faerie work? Was it from some book or your own?

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  7. And have you had slinghsot effect from this?

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  8. Hareton: Less "witchcraft" and more Druidic and Celtic oriented. My first experiences, some of my most intense, were out in nature and the Drudic path was the first I followed and looked into due to this. The world is rich with a variety of spirits and beings. To practice grimoric magic it is not necessary to mold one’s mind and conceptions to the dualist spirituality of many of the medieval era monks and Christians. The practices and methods for contacting spiritual beings are unique to each tradition. However, as to the type of spirits and in which ways we deal with them, there is no restriction past what one is able to handle. As a modern magician with enfaces on spiritual interaction, I view myself as a mediator between the spiritual and physical world. In this way, I can work beyond just conjuration’ arts and handle dealing with spirits outside my own methods of summoning them.

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  9. I find it curious that you say your only purpose for using evocation over avarage spells and rituals is to see the spirits. Evocation is a tool to enable vast power and potential to the limits of what human being can achieve through magic. Grimoires are designed for radical results of greater scale, because they enable the magician to gain authority over spirits, which in turn temporarily allow them to affect the external world. You don't normally expect from normal spells to allow you instant travel or causing earthquakes, and even when we encounter such formulas, we need said divine authority over spirits.

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  10. Never alluded to "seeing" spirits being my soul purpose for evocation. I agree with your statements as well . Not sure what you meant by "normal spells" though. For me, nothing concetning evocation has ever been for mundane purposes.

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  11. Thank you for writing this post. "its a bit difficult to take ANYONE serious after you've actually witnessed the poundings on the wall, flashes of light, smells, moans, screams, voices, and visible appearance of a spirit..."

    I think, for me, these words rang truest. I know that the real thing (or real thing based upon my own "subjective synthesis" as Dr. Joe calls it) is far different than my earliest attempts at evocation, instances where I measured success by how large and numerous my goosebumps were because I got a "weird and cold feeling" from the room. Ugh. Glad to be past that stage.

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  12. I'm not sure what you are saying? Are you saying that you have only had physical manifestation by putting your mind in an altered state, or that physical manifestation puts you in that state? Because Im sorry but I've had physical manifestation for the past 10 years since I first began and it hasn't put me in any altered state at all, nor have I had to enter one.

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  13. Frater, your blog is an enjoyable and encouraging read and your paraphernalia is magnificent.

    I'm assuming from your photos that the Hexagram of Solomon is suspended from the lion-skin belt. Is that correct?

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  14. Rufus: Thank you. My hexagram is suspended from the red cincture cord, separate from the lion skin belt. A white linen cloth is draped over the front of it until the "Address to the Spirit" when it is removed. I don't see anything wrong with attaching it to the lion skin belt though.

    A couple of magicians who seem to have had success, don't wear the Seal but keep it covered directly in front of them, either on a table or on the floor.

    The text says it is to be "worn at the skirt of ye white vestment, and covered with a linen cloath to ye which is to be shewed to the spirits when they are appeared that they may be compelled to be obedient and take a humane shape &c." which I took to mean it is meant to be worn as a vestment.

    However, having it in your possession, directly in front of you seems to be the point. I think the important thing is to be holding it directly (in front of you) when the spiritual phenomena begins occurring in the chamber (showing obvious signs of the spirit's arrival). I allow plenty of slack on my cincture belt so that I can hold it up in front of me with ease.

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  15. Frater,

    Your blog is wonderful and your ritual tools et al are magnificent. I have tried commenting in the past (many times) but it seems that us Wordpress bloggers can't seem to be able to leave comments on Blogspot. I've tried open ID, all the options in fact. I do hope this one makes it. Thank you again for your Work; very encouraging.

    Peter

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    1. Peter, I have had that same trouble, its frustrating. I'm surprised you got through. Thank you for your comments.

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  16. PS: What have you found to be your comfort zone regarding frequency of evocation? I spoke with one magician who has worked with the Heptameron as well as the Greater Key (extensively) and he said his "recovery time" is usually 3 months between operations of this nature. Joe Lisiewski told me 5 years (literally told me this). I'm sure JL was speaking from the assumption that we are talking about physical manifestation as he sees it.

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  17. My comfort zone is such that I understand the Lisiewski's and the other magician's stance.
    At least a year past after my first full blown attempt before I did another, and that was even after initial failure. Although no slingshot effect occurred during that first round. ( I hypothesize the lion belt, ring, gold pentacle lamen, etc assists with this. I have only experienced the phenomena a select amount of times, large amounts of time passing in-between. It is incomparable to anything else in the realms of magic and taxes everyone/thing involved.

    I am always HIGHLY skeptical of magicians BOASTING they achieve physical manifestation with spirits (especially goetic) on a regular basis as if it was a mundane and common practice.

    I do weekly evocations/invocations of the Almadel angels and see them clearly in the crystal sphere. (Not sure why a couple have trouble believing the angels are capable to do this. These are intense as well but on a positive note and beneficial for the magician (at least in my case). I look forward to it each week.

    The angels themselves seem to meet half way where the magician needs only the proper atmosphere ( tools and set up plus an area) and an engaging heart and mind. There are some other factors which play that go beyond this but I am uncertain exactly as to what they are. ie (what makes it work for some and not others) perhaps scrying ability is somewhat at play..

    ..Anyhow, my point is, the above practice is less taxing and does not seem to create the tensions that arise with the resisting energies of the Goetia.

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    1. Fra.AshenF.:N.:F

      I created a Google profile for the express purpose of commenting on your blog. It was recommended to me by a gentle names "Henrique" who reads it. I appreciate your reply. It's refreshing to see magicians who take the time and effort to work the grimoires in a way that I think they were meant to be worked. I think another blogger, John King (Imperial Arts) mentioned the same thing about the lion skin belt and how it helped his operations and, in particular, helped him understand what the spirit was saying. I don't know what the frequency of his operations is, however.

      I myself have experienced massive slingshot working with the Goetia, especially in my earliest workings. I have since that time dedicated myself to working in the "correct" manner. I agree totally with your skepticism of magicians and their weekly Goetic evocations to physical manifestation.

      I'd like to talk further, via regular email, if you are agreeable.

      Peter

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  18. This comment has been removed by a blog administrator.

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  19. Frater,

    Did you buy your Goetic circle, commission it or make it yourself?

    It's as splendid as the rest of your paraphernalia, that much is certain!

    Cheers,
    Rufus

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    1. Rufus, ai made it all myself and
      Added a few elements to it as well: Within the ring, the paint was mixed with a measure of consecrated salt, iron dust, and holy water. It took me about two weeks to complete.

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    2. Well done. You're a dab hand with a paint brush, that's obvious.

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  20. Solomon makes it very clear that the conjuring is to physical not only astral unless desired by the magician.

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  21. "I am always HIGHLY skeptical of magicians BOASTING they achieve physical manifestation with spirits (especially goetic) on a regular basis as if it was a mundane and common practice."

    No, that's in fact not possible at all, and all who say so in reality never had a full contact with an entity (especially a so called demon, even less an high rank one).

    Frankly speaking a full blown evocation of an entity should be done only once, to establish a "link" with that entity. This is what is talked about by Abramelin (no, the HGA of Abramelin is not the silent self, not matter what many people think), what is talked about in the Grimorium Verum about implict pacts, it is what has been used by Shamans from immemorial times, the "selling of the soul to the devil" of the traditional witches and so on and so forth.

    The calling forth of minor entities should be regarded only as experiments until you can successfully do this (and until you are certain you can really contact what you want and it is NOT a part of your subconscious). When you can, you then should contact an high hierarchy "spirit" (the nature of which should be well considered before because after you cannot work with opposing type of spirits) and form a so called "allegiance" with it. This will then give power (without the slingshot effect) upon all servitors of the same (the so called familiar spirits of old time).

    This is the only real magic. All the rest is fuss and new age talk. With that you get to learn directly from the links (spirits) you are working with and learn what you must do.

    Btw probably Crowley was able to get something similar at beginning ("strangely" enough when working first in Boleskine with the Abramelin system, evoking the prince demons) but completely botched it after.

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  22. I want just to add this comment then, about the book of Lisiewski and about the strict adherence to the exact tools in the grimoire. I see you like the guy much, and I must agree that in the midst of all his ramblings there are some keys to make evocation work, but they have little to do with the axioms themselves as used but Lisiewski. It seems to me that he is so much concerned with appearance that he cannot separate it from what's "under" the same.

    It is interesting to note how, for example, Lisiewski stresses the adherence to having all the tools perfectly etc. and not going "lazy" therein when he factually does so by using the simplest grimoire out there. It is a complete contradiction. He is lazy himself by using the easier of the grimoires. Using his advice you should go for the most difficult and improbable one you could obtain. You cannot stress the importance of following the things to the letter and then say "oh, you see, let's use what is easier". And all the stress about the psychological function of the tools? All the stress about the fundamental need of using complex procedures to bring the symbology alive in the mind?

    In reality if you procure the same exact paraphernalia described in the grimoires is not as important as what the symbols themselves arise in the mind of the user. Lisiewski actually nailed it when he talks about "going back to a magical work" but he just get carried away by the external act instead of the soul of it. This method is not different from what certain Shamans do to people outside their framework and culture. Their first step is to introduce the outsider in that world. But to really think that you need the same exact tools described in the grimories to do so would be like pretending that to write in italian vernacular you need to use the same exact tools Dante used for the Divine Comedy, elsewhere there's no way you can do that.

    The point here are not the tools themselves, but what they create. They create an existing world in the mind of the user where the entities and context acquire a REAL objective existence (naturally people in the old times where much advantaged on this point, they needed much less than now). This is the fundamental part, but the important part is how to achieve this, NOT the modus operandi to approach it.

    If an user goes about the instruction of Levi on how to construct a circle to evoke demons he will get the same exact results of using the Goetia tools, even if those instructions are obviously made up by Levi himself (as he even say himself). That's because it is what they bring to the mind the important thing, the world they create, not the objects themselves and their specifics.

    To simplify even more: the principal function the various tools in the various grimoires serves to is to create an objective existence of the entities evoked in the mind of the operator. This is the most important part of all the process. If in fact there is not this full recognition, nothing can work. From this lack of recognition arise all the other typical problems of a faulty evocation as doubts, not being able to reach the state required to achieve the manifestation and so on and so forth.

    I have executed both the "minimalistc" approach and bot the "fully traditional" one in my path to learn evocation, and while I've learned that being lazy is indeed sure failure from beginning, that failure is not really tied to to not using the exact same tools as in the grimoire but in not producing the recreation of the objective reality of the framework you want to work with, that it is what the tools are meant achieve and laziness therein disrupt; but you can achieve that state in many other ways knowing this, those ways even having not to do with the tools themselves.

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  23. Lavir, great feedback and comments. Well stated and am in much agreement to your response. Although not directly related to your comments above, I posted more on the use of magical tools on another page which further states my stance on the matter:

    Are these magical tools “needed” to have a sincere “mastery” over the elements?
    No. But for me, as a ceremonial magician, the true function of a (any) magical implement or vestment is to contain complex yet specific patters of occult force, virtue, and purpose which is enacted in the state of magical ecstasy during a magical operation (ceremony) to fulfill an specific function. That is to say, the implement expresses veritably, symbolically, astrally, and physically (thus linking all the worlds as one) the specific and intended effect of its nature while the magician (being a complex universe of all elements, variables, and measures within the frame of the divine construct) sets his will on the broader scope of the operation assisted with the complimenting tools of his trade. The conscious respect and inclusion of these tools comes with the knowledge and realization that it is not JUST the magician’s WILL which empowers these implements but external forces as well.

    These tools are not simply magical or psychological “props” ( “magicians” who use this term are missing the intended purpose for such items to begin with and are stunting their working on significant levels I believe) .
    True magical vestments and implements contain celestial and divine properties which become apparent after successful consecrations occur. Anyone in the west familiar with religious ceremonies of the Catholic or Christian faith that are done beyond the aspects of tradition and repetition will know of what I am speaking. It is the same with religions and spiritual practices of other cultures/systems as well.

    -Apprehending and then integrating the true meaning of the word “sacred” is at the core of what this post is about. It has little to do with materialism or superstition and everything to do with an exalted awareness. Realizing that nothing is “ordinary” or “mundane” and that every action, symbol, gesture and tool, can express divinity in creation if given the proper attention.

    I’d assume that just about everyone in the esoteric community would be aware of objects and places being impregnated with a particular kind of energy or entity where something significant has occurred weather for good, ill or ethically natural.
    In the grimoires, not only the creation and consecration of magical tools is described , but the use, treatment, and storage of each magical tool is meticulously adhered to. In fact there are warnings in some MS that if improper use and neglect is administered to some of these vestments that they will lose their virtue and use entirely.

    Consider carefully all of the above each time you decide to “do a magical ceremony”. Consider the amount of attention and care you put into what you are doing and what it is you are truly expecting out of it. How much of it is simply following a procedure in hopes to experience some spectacular results, and how much is truly an act of sacred participation in the role of creation?

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  24. Excellent post. Love your blog!

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  25. thanks to all of you for your insightful remarks and thoughts.....

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